Hi Tony, that's a real good verse. It shows that the answers given were meant to for the reciever to realize.

Also, we have to understand the nature of what we think we understand "God" is. If prayer is about Mercy, there also comes Severity when we understand the true nature of things and the divine.

I agree, it's definately not about what we ask for, prayer is not a request list to God. So that ties in with how we ask. Fervency and sincere intent coupled with an emotional necessity to connect to the divine establishes that connection between unseen dimensions.

I think that when we open ourselves up to divine influence, expecially through the spiritual work, we can establish a stronger conncetion to the divine and learn through experience exactly what this means.

Very good point of View Apakhana . I truly think that this scripture has different levels of meaning, and good for one to go deeper into the scripture.

Peace and Love.

Hi Tony,

Thanks for posting it, such a powerful and meaningful verse, relevant to everyone, I guess.

There is so much out there for us, Father waits for his beloved children to be mature and ready for amazing wonders which only a few know about, and even less have experienced.

Give us this day our daily bread, let's keep knocking into the doors because that's how we can open them.

Just some thoughts after reading it...

Enough strength to everyone

Very good Reflection Vadim .

Peace and Love

Hi, Tony. There is a part in the book "The Flight of the Feathered Serpent" which explains how the Lord's prayer is a ladder we can use to climb in our spiritual progress, if we make the efforts to understand it. In order to rise, we need to live our prayer, which is much more important than formulating it with words.

There is "praying" that is only empty words spoken in the mind, and then there is living prayer which is found in loving actions and a sincere yearning in the heart for the Divine. This is a feeling which we can carry around with us at all times and helps us to rise up above the lower feelings of the egos.

-Noah

Very Good point Noah I must read that book again very thought provoking..

Peace and Love

"Our Father which art in heaven , Hallowed be thy name . Thy Kingdom come , Thy will be done , as in heaven, so in earth."

I was exposed to this prayer for the first time some months ago.

(from the other topic)
John 16:13. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

I thought it useful to quote the following portion of the Quran:

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Surah 39: The Troops

67. And they esteem not Allah as He hath the right to be esteemed, when the whole earth is His handful on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens are rolled in His right hand. Glorified is He and High Exalted from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him).

[The first heaven includes the stars (space), while the seventh corresponds to The Absolute.]

68. And the trumpet is blown, and all who are in the heavens and all who are in the earth swoon away, save him whom Allah willeth. Then it is blown a second time, and behold them standing waiting!

69. And the earth shineth with the light of her Lord, and the Book is set up, and the prophets and the witnesses are brought, and it is judged between them with truth, and they are not wronged.

70. And each soul is paid in full for what it did. And He is Best Aware of what they do.

71. And those who disbelieve are driven unto hell in troops till, when they reach it and the gates thereof are opened, and the warders thereof say unto them: Came there not unto you messengers of your own, reciting unto you the revelations of your Lord and warning you of the meeting of this your Day? They say: Yea, verily. But the word of doom of disbelievers is fulfilled.

72. It is said (unto them): Enter ye the gates of hell to dwell therein. Thus hapless is the journey's end of the scorners.

73. And those who keep their duty to their Lord are driven unto the Garden in troops till, when they reach it, and the gates thereof are opened, and the warders thereof say unto them: Peace be unto you! Ye are good, so enter ye (the Garden of delight), to dwell therein;

74. They say: Praise be to Allah, Who hath fulfilled His promise unto us and hath made us inherit the land, sojourning in the Garden where we will! So bounteous is the wage of workers.

75. And thou (O Muhammad) seest the angels thronging round the Throne, hymning the praises of their Lord. And they are judged aright. And it is said: Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!

 it appears that one lesson being shown here is a way the disciple should offer a petition to God in time of need.

Immediately, the question of lack is raised. Indeed, "blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of God". A call to realize our condition is addressed. and the need to humble oneself, especially in our spiritual immaturity, and learn thru grace to acknowledge that God's way, his scheme alone, is good and perfect. (usually we attribute God with things that 'feel good' to us but a need to recognize that God the ultimate reality is beyond such ('good or bad') judgments)

Then, the question of discernment. Somewhere in Roman's st paul remarks on the renewal of the mind in order to discern the will of God/natural flow. So again, one is faced with the need to know, and have a coherent understanding of self in relation to the scheme of things when placing a request.

Also even when you feel like you don't deserve help, your feeling unworthy it is important to ask for help from above.

I was troubled while recalling this topic and realizing that I might have helped to give the impression that God's throne is in or (stricly) above The Absolute. "heaven" in the prayer corresponds to "the unseen" in the Quran I think.

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

16:77. And unto Allah belongeth the unseen of the heavens and the earth, and the decision of the Hour (of Judgement) is as the twinkling of an eye, or even quicker. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.

2:255. Allah! There is no god save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous.

(Note: In both verses, I have borrowed a sentance from AYA's translation, placing it over Pickthall's.)

peace